Statement: Catholicism has been the best civilisation humanity has ever experienced.
Go ahead and try and disprove that.
Some baseline issues to consider:
- Catholicism is considered to be the religion that started (depending on your view of things) sometime between the year 0 and 34 AD, since the life, death and resurrection of Christ is the pivotal and foundational aspect of Catholicism (Christianity).
- All other versions of “Christianity”, be it any of the 40,000+ versions of Protestantism, Eastern “Orthodoxy”, and including all Novus Ordo “Catholicism” are mere perversions of actual Catholicism, which is the only Christianity that ever has existed or ever can exist, since God is not likely to produce thousands of false and dead ends.
- Catholicism in its best exterior-known fashion was absolutely infiltrated over roughly two centuries and ultimately almost completely converged to active Satanism by 1958 when Angelo Roncalli became the first of the currently unbroken line of Antipopes. Effectively this means that the Catholic Church has been greatly reduced and has been living in an Interregnum (between royal realms) since 1958. A condition that happens every time a Pope dies before another valid Pope is elected. It is an unusual situation but not entirely unprecedented since there have been periods of up to 70 years where is was very difficult to know which Pope was the real Pope since up to three of them laid claim to the throne of Peter and resolving who were the antipopes happened generally after they were dead, and there has also been a period of at least two years without anyone at all on the See of Peter too. The conclusion of all this is that the only Catholicism left is that espoused by Sedevacantists (ie those Catholics left who recognise that Vatican II and all things related to it are anything but Catholic, and continue to follow Catholicism as it always was and has been encoded in the Pio-Benedictine Code of Canon Law of 1917).
On that basis, I challenge anyone to find a civilisation in the entirety of human history that was superior for human beings than Catholicism.
So far I have been presented with only two possible alternatives, both absurd.
- An unspecified antediluvian civilisation (Eg Atlantis, Lemuria, etc.) Considering I literally wrote The Face on Mars in which I essentially proved that such a civilisation not only existed, but likely was responsible for the destruction of certainly one, and possibly two planets in our solar system and then continued to have a war here, on our planet, the idea that such people were technologically more advanced certainly follows, but that they were a superior civilisation, is laughable. Certainly by the way I measure a civilisation anyway, which is not limited to mere technological capacity. And which should be obvious to anyone not mentally deficient: Destroying a couple of planets and then continuing a generational war between the few survivors on a third planet doesn’t exactly inspire one with confidence in such a people’s concepts of mercy, charity, humanity, and so on.
- An equally unspecified pre-Christian people. This smelt rather badly of some Pagan LARPing nonsense, since the “pre-christian” people in question were intentionally left unspecified. Possibly because I have been rather clear in making fun of people that pretend that their supposed Viking ancestors were “superior” in civilisation/religion/belief system to Catholics. Which is hilarious for a large number of reasons, but I’ll identify only three. First of all, the barbaric, vicious and rape-oriented “civilisation” of the Vikings was absolutely a fucking horror show that modern people barely have any concept of, and secondly, because that’s just based on the little that we have left about their practices we are absolutely sure of, because a bunch of the other things that they believed or engaged in remains lost to the fact that they never bothered to write any of it down, preserve it or even bother to continue perpetrating it. But personally, and most hilariously of all for me, is the fact that my own ancestors absolutely were from those genetic people. The Franks and Normans that formed overwhelmingly the largest part of the first Crusade (1095 AD) were the descendants of the very Vikings that up to a couple of centuries earlier (about 900 AD) raided and murdered many Catholic monasteries and monks. In order to stop this, the Catholics offered them lands and space to protect themselves from their raids, on the understanding that they would fight off their kinsmen who wanted to continue raiding. And over time, all of these people converted to Christianity, without losing their talent for battle. My own family line can directly be traced back to the returning Crusaders when the Outremer was essentially beginning to be overwhelmed after a couple of centuries of occupation with no help at all from the “Orthodox” Easterners who had asked for Catholic help to begin with, and with ever increasing costs borne by Catholic Europe alone, and increasing numbers of belligerent Muslims. The returning crusaders with my surname came to Italy via present day Albania, quashed a feud that had been ongoing for 200 years, then split into two branches, one that remained in the south; the Golden branch, since the King of Sicily had made them Marquis (as well as all future first-born sons), and a Silver one (wilder explorers) who went further north to Venice and took part in the war of Candia were they were again rewarded for military bravery and given a perpetual noble title of Patricians (the lowest of Nobles). So, if anyone at all knows anything about such people, it really is me, and no, the Vikings absolutely were NOT in any way, shape or form a superior “civilisation” to Catholicism. In fact it is questionable if one should even consider them a civilisation at all. And pretty much the same goes for any other ancient culture, Spartan, Athenian, Roman, all were far from pleasant societies than anyone alive today normally imagines. Nor can we say the Chinese dynasties, or the Imperial Japanese ones were superior civilisations. The Chinese were far more numerous sure, but in terms of conditions of life for the average Chinese? It’s laughable.
In conclusion, the only “attacks” that will be forthcoming will be from:
Boomer tier ‘Muricans saying “We went to the Moon!” No, you didn’t the Nazis did it for you, and no, you didn’t really go anywhere near the way you think you did. And in any case, Protestantism has only and purely been the secularisation of Christianity (Catholicism) which has got us to where it is today, with their transgender Bishops, 40,000 plus “demon-nimations” and one rule to rule them all: “Interpreth as thou will!”. The rampant Clown World face of the West currently is Protestantism writ large. It is the “acceptance” and “tolerance” for the demonic, which is, of course, the very intent of the founders of America, since it was financed and created by Freemasons with funds from the French Revolution and the same Freemasonic Mottos of Equality, Fraternity (brotherhood of man) and Liberty, which all translate ultimately to “Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law”. And since Protestants are absolutely ignorant of anything even remotely Christian, let me spell out that that law is literally the one Satanic Law, as espoused by Alistair Crowley.
Ignorant Eastern “Orthodox”, who will claim they are the true keepers of the faith, while trying to avoid the fact they are as split as the Protestants, with no visible head, their Churches segregated by nationality, but the final nail in their coffin being that they neither spread, the gospel anywhere close to how much the Catholics did, but rather, they stagnated, and secondly, their achievements in terms of humane evolution remained similarly stagnant, as did their art and philosophy. They didn’t create the scientific method, abolish slavery or change much of anything for the better. Catholics did.
Randoms. These can range from people who will try to pretend they are knowledgeable of Japanese civilisation, or Tibetan ones say, while missing the main point that even if we accepted the premise that Shintoism and the Samurai age was superior to Catholicism (it was not, but it certainly has a level of aesthetic appeal), or that Tibetan monasteries were the pinnacle of civilisation (they were and are not, and anyway the Chinks have taken them out) it remains a tiny fraction of the level and number of effects that Catholicism created on Earth when compared to these alternatives. The random brainwashed Protestants left bleating in the dark really have nothing meaningful to say. The so-called “Protestant work ethic” together with the Industrial Revolution, which can be placed under Protestant “achievements” is merely a mechanisation of human beings and ultimately does not actually produce the best quality of work, though it does produce large quantity of it while mostly dehumanising the people in it, reducing them to cogs in the giant machine dedicated to “profit”. And obviously all the evils that Protestantism has allowed to become “normal” by “tolerating” them remain too. Finally, pedophilic religions like Islam or Judaism are clearly inferior religions and systems of belief, one essentially still relegated to little more than desert nomads in terms of technology, ability and discovery, since all they have is taken or paid for and produced by Westerners, and the other hyper-focussed on enslaving the rest of humanity while turning a profit, in case their proclivities for raping children wasn’t enough.
I would certainly welcome anyone cogent, and dealing solely in dialectic, that would be willing to debate the fact that Catholicism is without question the best system for human beings that humanity has ever come up with, but so far the only two people that I thought might make a reasoned argument have either declined outright (Andrew Wilson – Eastern Orthodox), or stated that they may at some distant future date, possibly engage the topic with me (Vox Day – Protestant). And so far, I haven’t really come across anyone, on or offline that might have the intellectual capacity to hold up their end in an honest intellectual debate. Perhaps I should try to get a hold of William Lane Craig.
Commenters feel free to have a go, but respect the blog rules.
Its Anthony from Social Galactic. I’m not going to try to make my case again for Orthodoxy (Il do that on a future blog post), but I think its important to address a topic that is often not talked about by Catholics, Orthodox or Protestants alike in these spaces and that’s the issue of how people respond to the idea of eternal hell in the modern world.
As a Catholic, how do you respond to the idea that one of the reasons the people of Catholic nations fell away from the faith and embraced secularism and atheism is that modern people simply became tired of feeling guilty and fearful about the doctrine of eternal hell? We can talk all day about how the freemasons, jews, protestants and Vatican 2 played a role in secularizing the west (All of which is true), but a simple factor that people tend to gloss over is that modern people have been given the freedom and time to think these things through and many have come to the conclusion that they feel more liberated and have more peace as an atheist, than belonging to a religion that produces crippling guilt among many. Its tragic, but its true and I don’t think we can really deny it. Its simply part of the story of modernity. Roman Catholicism is known for producing the disorder of scrupulosity among some adherents and even many who don’t have it that bad at least a sense of guilt that does not produce great spiritual strength and often hinders spiritual progress. This is why I’m a little skeptical about your claim that Catholicism produces the happiest people, especially when other Christian traditions don’t have nearly the same guilt problem.
This is one of the reasons why I think Orthodoxy is true by the way. One of the things about Orthodoxy that I like is its more holistic approach to repentance and reading the lives of the saints. Sin in Orthodoxy is primary recognized as a sickness of the soul that needs to be healed rather than legal narratives. Its not to say that we don’t recognize are need to be forgiven for our sins but the Orthodox spiritual life is focused on healing. The Orthodox Church does not avoid problem of modern people grappling with the doctrine of eternal damnation and their critical questions of it, but I do think its in a better position in some ways to deal with it compared to Catholicism. Hope to hear your response.
In the general terms you presented it here, I agree entirely with your point. It was one of the reasons that I was INITIALLY attracted more to EO. HOWEVER, being as I tend to be a rather thorough so and so on a personal level of things that interest me I carrie don digging, and my final conclusion is that the error of too much guilt in Catholicism is indeed rather generic and today also made worse by the widespread retarded bianry thinking that Protestantism has sprayed like sewage all over the English-speaking world, however, ultimately, that is all it is and in my experience, not as prevalent among the few sede priests left. On the other hand, the error of EO is that they get some serious theological principles wrong and their ultimate sin is actually one of pride, which is far worse than too much guilt. Additionally, they simply to not think deeply enough or correctly enough about items they then deep to be “mystical” but which instead can be thought through with reason, logic and some common sense.
The correct way to be Catholic is like the Crusaders of 1095 or the Knights of Malta of 1565. That’s an easier problem to fix by simply having people read The Crusades by Harold Lamb, or The Great Siege by Ernle Bradford. In fact, may I suggest you read them if you have not already. I also read lives of some EO saints, because people who can actually think (of which you seem capable) are few and far between, and they should keep a rational and at least partially open mind, so that if nothing else, they can at least be able to better critique the people they perceive as being in error. I can do so with some details for having familiarised myself with some key parts of the Koran and Talmud. So, I hope you will take me up on this.
one thing that is consistently difficult to understand coming from you is this heavy vitriol toward orthodox christianity and orthodox christians. I can only try to explain it as originating from a flawed understanding of history. i have further observed in many examples of this animosity i’ve encountered, strong hints that suggest the flawed and selective reading of history has been chosen to construct an alternate reality which seeks to paint a moral superiority on one party and a moral inferiority on another, as an ex-post-facto rationalization.. i further observe that this sort of behavior is commonly found in people who know very well that they committed an offense, but cannot bring themselves to admit it- so they construct a twisted version of events to convince themselves that they were ‘victims’ and wre ‘justified’ in whatever crimes they did. I also further observe that all those events, both the crimes, and their perpetrators, were centuries and centuries ago, and that faithful christians, catholic and orthodox alike, in our modern and degenerate age, really ought to have bigger problems than that- supposing an honest desire to reconcile and face common enemies , without subversive side-agendas as in ages past, exists. i would happily help you to develop a better understanding of the history and realize such reconciliation. it will probably involve having to swallow some falsely inflated pride about some matters, but it will be rewarded with a more dignified and solid pride rooted firmly in reality. we have so much constructive to accomplish without refreshing an animosity born of the faults of people now long dead.
-an orthodox brother from further east.
There is no vitriol. Stop being a pussy. Read as much history as you want, the facts of what actually happened have been recorded and in general terms the way I present things is broadly correct and undeniable. You just don’t like the facts as they are because they irritate or give you emotions you don’t like to deal with.
As for the “crimes” committed:
1. They were mostly committed by the EO
2. I wasn’t there some 900 years ago and I feel absolutely fuck all concerning the “crimes” the “guilt” or the “blame”. I merely state the facts, because the fruits born by EO simply DO NOT LINE UP WITH THEIR BEING THE ONE TRUE CHURCH. And all you are doing here is the usual whining of a “man” that simply can’t deal with the facts as they are because it makes him feel bad.
And I absolutely do not need someone without the basic elementary skills to do his own research before “speaking out” like a wounded faggot to “help me” with absolutely anything. Especially considering I have already authored over 600 pages of work on Catholicism and its history.
You seem to be under some delusion that I, or actual Catholics, who follow the One True Religion somehow “need” you, or your help, or anyone else. We don’t. Because Catholics have never needed it, for a very simple reason. We are with God.
Which once more proves only what a miserable fake “Christian” you are. If you actually WERE an actual Christian (i.e. a Catholic) you would not feel the pathetic fear and cowardly need to “aggregate” with supposed schismatics or heretics “for the greater good”.
I sure as shit don’t.
Nor do I accept any sewage in my ice-cream. Unlike you, clearly.
And no, none of this is “vitriol” or “anger” or “hate”. This is just a normal man giving an annoying begging, homosexual, trying to pretend he is “one of us” a kick in the ass to move him on, either to the nearest ditch, his closet, fake Church, or, God willing to the truth and a wake up call, because I sure as fuck am not wasting my time on pathetic excuses like you, as I stated years ago in Believe!
well, gee, that’s a mature and well-thought reply. seems like any time you hear something you don’t agree with you just dump a small pile of profanity in a child’s tantrum and ignore anything the other fellow said. my two year old does that.
if you’d go back and actually read what i wrote, and if you genuinely wanted to understand the issue instead of make yourself feel better/superior/more of a ‘man’ by some confused idea you have of that subject, well, then, as i said before i’d happily assist with that.
What part of shove your “ass-is-stance” did you not understand. You’re a dumb-ass NPC who reacts emotionally, as proven by the fact that you have zero response to my FACTS “because scary bad words”. Whatever, go put some salve on that butthurt, fag.
edit: my 2 year old doesn’t use profanity.
you like Ernle Bradford? “the great siege” is indeed an excellent book, i have had a copy on my shelves for close to 20 years. Nearby is another excellent book by the same author “the great betrayal” recounting some of the unsavory aspects of the fourth crusade, which is the single biggest source of the hostility i see you have adopted, despite that fact that such hostility was indeed more than anything else a guilt-covering mechanism for people 8 centuries ago and a mature adult 8 centuries after the fact should be able to understand the truth without feeling somehow threatened by it.
Again, You absolute fucking RETARD: The FOURTH Crusade was a response to the first THREE where the EO backstabbed the very people who came to save them, schismatics though they were. There is really NOTHING hard to understand about this. You’re a dumb-ass gamma, and your entire existence, and every opinion you have on this matter is not only wrong, but irrelevant.
So I’m thinking of all the times I’ve interacted with Eastern Orthodox people and I’ve found they are some of the most Extremely Online people on the planet (The kind who are regular customers of Executive Optical) and that there’s a very striking resemblance between the YouTube Streamers like Dyer and Kyle and the New Atheists. It should be little wonder that their space is infested with Gammas.
EO is doomed if this is the case. May all these LARPers repent and join the Catholic Church, truly represented by the Sedevacantists.
Amen.